Resources—Interviews

This interview is published in the July/August 2001 issue of SCREENTALK magazine.

Growing up in the same city and attending rival high schools would have been enough to keep many apart, but David Levien and Brian Koppelman challenged tradition, became best friends, and today are successful writers, filmmakers and business partners.

Brian Koppelman attended Tufts University, where he distinguished himself by discovering the award-winning singer-songwriter, Tracy Chapman. He then went on to develop a successful career in the music business, securing A&R positions at several established record companies, all while earning a law degree at Fordham University during the evening.

David Levien is a graduate of the University of Michigan, where his short stories were often published in the undergraduate literary magazine. After David graduated, he moved to Los Angeles where he began working in the film business for producers such as Edward S. Feldman, Leonard Goldberg and J. Paul Higgins. It was also during this time that David began writing screenplays and fiction, including the novel, "Wormwood," published in 1999 by Hyperion-Miramax.

David and Brian began working together in 1996 when they wrote their first original screenplay, Rounders, about a law student who not only gambles away his tuition money, but his girlfriend, his law degree, and nearly his life. Because they wanted to create a script as true to form as possible, the two of them conducted intensive research on the subject matter, including personally entering the dangerous world of underground poker halls. Their thorough attention to detail, and to research, has since become one of their hallmark traits. Rounders was sold to Miramax Films in March of 1997. It was produced the following winter, directed by notable filmmaker John Dahl (Last Seduction, Red Rock West) and starring Matt Damon, Edward Norton, John Malkovich, John Turturro, Gretchen Mol, and Martin Landau. The critically acclaimed Rounders was an instant success, opening number one at the box office.

Since selling Rounders, Brian and David have been hired to write numerous production re-writes for various studios and production companies. They have also written the original screenplays Weasels for United Artists with Cary Woods producing, and Guido’s All-American for Warner Brothers.

The duo also recently wrote, directed, and produced the gangster film, Knockaround Guys. It’s the story of four sons of well-known Brooklyn based mobsters and their desperate fight to retrieve a bag of cash in a small Montana town ruled by a corrupt sheriff. The film stars John Malkovich, Dennis Hopper, Barry Pepper, Vin Diesel and Seth Green. Produced by Lawrence Bender (Pulp Fiction, Good Will Hunting, Reservoir Dogs), Knockaround Guys will be released by New Line Cinema on August 31st.

David Levien and Brian Koppelman are currently adapting Mark Helprin’s novel, A Soldier Of The Great War for Miramax. Told from the point of view of an Italian professor, an ex-war hero, A Soldier Of The Great War recounts the former soldier’s dramatic WWI experiences. David and Brian are producing the film along with Edward Norton, who will also star in the film version of this best-selling novel.

How did you two meet? I understand that the two of you met while you were high school students at rival high schools….

Yes, the high schools had a pretty entrenched rivalry that played out in all competitive fields. We first crossed paths in a "Battle of the Bands." Brian was a pretty fair bassist in a Van Halen cover band, Dave was in the percussion section of Roundabout, a YES tribute group. But we really first spent time together the next summer when we were on the same cross-country bus tour for teens.

After high school, the two of you went on to college, Brian to Tufts, and David to the University of Michigan. Is that when you both decided to become filmmakers?

Well, we’d always loved movies, and watched our favorites over and over. We definitely had the idea that we’d like to make films, but it didn’t seem like a reality at that time. More of a dream than a plan.

Yes. We each took writing classes. The classes were a beginning. We got an idea of how hard it was to write, and began to learn the kind of language that’s used when discussing writing. You can’t really learn to write in a class though. It only happens by spending a lot of time writing. Brian studied David Mamet’s plays more than he studied anything in school regarding writing.

We always knew we’d do something together. We started selling bootleg T-shirts, this is where it ended up. Rounders was the first screenplay we wrote together.

Rounders, starring Matt Damon and Edward Norton and directed by John Dahl was your first produced screenplay. Can you tell us a bit about that experience?

We’d planned on writing a script together and were casting about for the right idea. We already had the idea, unformed, that would turn into Knockaround Guys our second movie, when Brian called me at about 3:00 in the morning. He’d just been cleaned out in an illegal poker club in New York. We went back the next night and started soaking in the characters, atmosphere, and language of the underground poker scene. We spent about a year playing, reading books on poker, making trips to Atlantic City, and outlining, before starting the first draft. The draft took about four months. We had just met a young manager in Hollywood, Seth Jaret, and he got it to Tracy Falco at Spanky Pictures. They got it to Miramax. It was a spec sale. The second draft was the one that sold, and by the time it was shot we’d written about seventeen more.

We were intimately involved. John Dahl was very generous about giving us access. We were on set every day.

In Knockaround Guys you two not only wrote the film, you produced and directed as well. Was this always the plan?

We both grew up on Long Island where we came into contact with the sons and daughters of reputed members of organized crime. When criminals do well, they move their families to the suburbs just like businessmen. We saw the position these kids were in–people knew their backgrounds and both put them on a pedestal and looked down on them at the same time. We thought they’d be a great subject for a movie.

Did you pitch it–and then write it–after you sold it, or did you spec it out first? What was the development process like?

We pitched it. New Line bought it, then we wrote it. Mike DeLuca and Lawrence Bender endeavored to be helpful and clear, and to make the development process an organic one. We weren’t scarred by it, but, unfortunately, even with the best in the business giving us advice, we find the development process is not as pure as writing a spec.

What attracted the two of you to the worlds of underground gambling and the Mafia? Why is "the dark side" so powerful for all of us?

We’re fascinated by people who reject the rules of mainstream society. We always have been. The ‘why’ is unanswerable.

Loyalty to friendships, too, is a powerful theme in both of these movies. Did you two draw on your own long-time friendship when you created the main characters?

Yes. It seems like anytime people are friends or allies, forces in the world try and knock them apart. We’ve admired the quality of sticking together in the face of this.

We both do it. When you walk into a strange bar in the middle of Montana on a research trip and thirty tough farmers who don’t care much for strangers look your way, you’re glad you’re not alone.

How do you work through parts of a script where you hit a roadblock in the story?

We just keep at it. We keep attacking it. Going to the end and working backwards, surrounding the problem, until we think it’s solved.

For Knockaround Guys, did you write the parts specifically for any of the actors who were cast? (Barry Pepper, John Malkovich, Dennis Hopper, etc.?)

Generally we don’t do that, though after working with Malkovich on Rounders, we couldn’t help but envision him as Teddy Deserve in Knockaround Guys.

It got tighter. In rehearsal we cut false-sounding lines. In the editing room we cut bad lines. But, overall, the movie is representative of the first drafts.

Tell us about the filming of Knockaround Guys (budget, time frame, any difficulties with the two locations).

The movie takes place 1/3 in New York, the rest in Montana. We shot New York exteriors in New York, New York interiors in Toronto, and the Montana stuff in Western Canada. Moving locations so much strained the budget, but in the end it was worth it because the movie has scope and specificity.

We approached all tasks and decisions together. We shared in the decision making throughout pre-production: locations, costumes, etc. We both set up the shots with our DP when we were shooting. We would both have discussions with the actors, though only one of us would give a note after a take in order to avoid confusion. We saw things very similarly since we wrote the script together and have known each other for so long.

Flexibility, openness, honesty. These all sound simple, but you’ve got to be committed to them at all times.

When there are the rare disagreements, it’s usually because there is a third, better idea out there. We do our best to find it. If that doesn’t work–fisticuffs.

You’re adapting Mark Helprin’s novel, A Solider of the Great War for Miramax next. Do you prefer adaptations to originals? Or are they both equally difficult?

We generally prefer originals, but in the case of A Solider of the Great War, the material is so rich and well written it was totally satisfying to work on. It was also a case of writing for a particular actor–Edward Norton–who is producing with us and starring in the film. He’s so good, it’s exciting to envision him saying the lines.

Story by the Coen Brothers, dialogue by Mamet, Scorcese and Michael Mann co-directing, De Niro starring. Us in the audience watching the movie.

What we always say: keep at it. Don’t get discouraged. Keep sending your stuff out to people who can help get it made.

Constance M. Burge is a SCREENTALK Staff Writer. She created and Executive Produced the television series "Charmed," and was the Creator/Co-Executive Producer of the night time soap, "Savannah," also for the WB network. She has an overall deal to write and produce one-hour television pilots for 20th Century Fox Television. And, as that won’t keep her busy enough, this Hollywood dynamo is now a Consulting Producer for the David E. Kelley Company ("Boston Public", "Ally McBeal", etc.).